Terry Hedden (00:00)
Are you an MSP that struggled to make successful sales hires? You bring in salesperson after salesperson only for them to fail? Our Grow Limitless podcast guest today, Arianna, is exactly the person you want to listen to. You see, she was brought in from the outside, didn’t know the tech industry, looked internally to figure out what was wrong. What was wrong with that sales engine and how could she turn it into a revenue-making machine? She did just that. Leveraging Marketopia to fill the missing gaps between where her MSP was when she arrived and where it is today, a sales machine. She’s optimistic about the future and I can’t wait for you to hear why. Enjoy.
Ariana, thank you so much for joining us today on the Grow Limitless podcast.
Arianna Harrelson (00:52)
Thank you so much for having me.
Terry Hedden (00:55)
I’m excited to learn more about your journey and what led you to make the decision to work with us. Tell me little bit about your business and their journey so far.
Arianna Harrelson (01:06)
So I’m with Apollo Networks. I’m the director of sales. I came in in November, and we didn’t really have any kind of marketing plan or really any sales strategy. was word of mouth referrals, and that’s what we were going based off. So when I came in, it was, all right, how do I get leads? And leading up to before we joined, was cold calling, 100 calls a day, even more sometimes.
Cold walk-ins, which were very interesting, I guess since COVID, it’s very different. But it was a struggle. So we really sat down and were like, need help. There’s no way. We don’t have an internal marketing team. So I did a lot of research on a ton of different companies. And you guys just made the most sense, especially with the sales training.
Terry Hedden (01:54)
Oh wow, that’s really cool. Thank you for that. It’s quite a compliment. I feel like the more due diligence people go through, the more confident they are in their decision, the better the partnership tends to be, right? If you have a doubt going in, that kind of grows over time and the first hiccup, all of a sudden the doubt kind of mushrooms into something much larger. But, tell me the companies you considered, I guess, I guess you mentioned sales. I’m curious what you mean about the sales training part.
Arianna Harrelson (02:22)
So I have a business mentor and I did not come from a sole sales role. I was an office manager for a wholesale company. So I was doing imports, exports, running an office. So nothing that really had to do with outbound sales or inbound sales, any kind of. ⁓ I went to school for architecture. So again, very sheltered position that would have been. The companies that we looked at.
I looked at Jump Factor. There was another company that was not industry specific that just did marketing. ⁓ Wonder, I believe it is. And I knew somebody from there. And then another one was just cold calling and appointment setting. So there was like no happy medium that I found that had all of them until I found you guys.
But the sales training was huge. So my business mentor, he’s like, you need some sort of sales training to get you in the right flow, especially if you’re going to have a team underneath you. And when your rep had told me about that, I was like, my god, finally. Especially that it’s industry specific, because I feel like this is such a different industry than other types of sales.
Terry Hedden (03:34)
I don’t think there’s any question about that. So many people come into every sales role and it’s like sales to sales. You’re like, not really, you know. Business process outsourcing is not the same thing as selling a widget and selling a transactional sale versus a long-term business relationship is very different. And then of course you add in the techno babble and techno noise, I guess, that comes in any conversation. All of sudden it’s hard for someone like you to come in and be successful in a normal
MSP or a normal tech firm but within an MSP, Arianna, I gotta tell you with some great training, your background is an asset because you understand the mind of the customer a lot better than the average technical person. know, they’re so, the technology itself, the bits and bytes and speeds and feeds and all that is so in their head they wanna impress the customer with their techno babble when in reality the average business person’s gonna shut down and say, know what, I’d rather be with Arianna who understands my business and she’s listening and she’s learning and we’re not bogged down in the technical details. I think it’s a good thing. It’s interesting, what made you, I guess what led them to hire you? Did you know them going in or did they kind of see that fresh perspective and see value in it versus hiring a tech salesperson?
Arianna Harrelson (04:51)
They were my MSP at my old company. I, and I was a one person show. I saw every problem that could have arised and I, it was like I worked for them already because I was on the phone with them constantly. So, you know, I gained good rapport and it was, hey, you know, we’re looking for a salesperson. You have a great personality. I’m like, guys, there’s no way that’s going to happen. And then they approached me again and it just, made sense financially for me to make a switch. And I took a leap of faith into this because I am not a technical person.
Terry Hedden (05:24)
Well, some of the best things in life come to those who are willing to take chances and go out on a limb and move away from the comfort sometimes. So that’s cool. What do you think of the industry so far? How does it compare with your expectations? Talk to me about the company in the industry so far. How does it, if you’re a salesperson that’s not in this industry and they’re watching this video, what would you say about the managed services industry and working in it so far?
Arianna Harrelson (05:50)
I would say if you are curious, do it. ⁓ It’s so interesting. I’m learning something new every single day and there’s things that change every single day. But as scared as I was, it’s not hard to grasp if you really put the time in. So I’m glad I did it.
Terry Hedden (06:10)
That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Okay, well, I guess go to the pivot to the sales training. You mentioned that was a big deal coming in and you shared why, which makes a lot of sense to me. Have you started to consume the training? Have you started to deploy it and put it into action? What are the results you’ve seen so far?
Arianna Harrelson (06:27)
So I’m halfway through the training, but the first half that I’ve done, it’s just things that you don’t think to do. I feel like when you get into a new position, you try to build whatever you think is going to work. And then when it doesn’t, it’s like, OK, well, what do I do now? And you go on Google, and that’s not very helpful. And then even I’m a part of a few networking groups and was asking them, and nothing really would make sense for being an MSP. So it’s just like the way that it’s broken down with like the proposal and different ways to take steps, what the first call should look like, what your second call should look like, and like when to ask what questions to really kind of find out their pain points instead of just being super aggressive. That has been already so helpful for me going into like initial discovery calls.
Terry Hedden (07:18)
Good deal, and you’ve started to have those now. I think I’ve heard some good leads coming in and you’re starting to get some practice there. You find yourself getting better and better with each opportunity.
Arianna Harrelson (07:27)
Yeah, every call I do, it just gets better and better. I still slip up a little bit, but it’s, I always have notes next to me.
Terry Hedden (07:34)
Yeah, I’ll tell you be proud of that and it sounds so simple and you’re probably thinking I’m crazy to say that but
Marketopia has been doing this for a long time, In a couple weeks we’re gonna celebrate our 11th anniversary. ⁓ We are pretty effective, extremely rare that we can’t make leads happen. Our number one issue really comes down to arrogance and hubris of the customer in the sense that they got to where they are because of how they did things.
We’re successful, obviously, to a point, but they’re resistant to change and they’re resistant to get better and they will literally make the same mistakes over and over and never really see that progress. And unfortunately, that’s our Achilles heel. We could be as successful, we could double expectations, we can pent up all expectations and still get fired at the end of the year if the customer doesn’t close a deal. So the sales training was designed to address that issue. At this point, I would say 99% of dissatisfied clients come down to one number which is the close ratio and the problem there is really not It’s almost never a real problem It’s just that they’re doing it the way that they have always done it which was based on a word-of-mouth sales methodology and not a normal marketing lead so the reason I say that is that you should be really proud of just being willing to change and adapt and get better each month because that’s going to put you in the top 10 top 10 top 20 percent of all of our customers that are humble and they’re you know, they’re willing to listen and learn and and get better each time and and frankly the results of those the average growth rate of those that pocket of customers is north of 30 % a year and it’s sustainable 30 % so you’re those are the people who go from 3 million to 20 million in five years is because they’re saying if I could just get 1 % better each appointment, you know, or and and just get better and better and better. They’ll start to close deals next thing know they’re adding five, ten, twenty thousand dollars a month RMR on the P &L. You know what I mean? Just by closing to five, you know, one customer and then three customers a month and then ten customers a month and then you start just getting more appointments by adding more marketing and next thing you know, you know, you’re adding a million dollars a year into managed service revenue which is obviously a game changer for those businesses.
Arianna Harrelson (10:05)
That’s awesome. It’s a lot of work and I think that’s people… I’m going to sign up with a marketing company and I’m sorry. That’s one thing I saw a lot like reading certain reviews it’s like, I didn’t get this. It’s like, but did you on the back end put in all the work that you were supposed to do? Because it’s a lot and if you don’t put that in you’re not getting anything. You could have the best marketing company in the whole world. You’re not going to get a single thing from it.
Terry Hedden (10:08)
Give me some examples. Yeah, that’s interesting and I think you’ll find that that’s almost 100 % true. Ariana, give me some examples. What are the things that you’ve learned? What are the things that you’ve gotten 1 % better each time you’ve had the opportunity? Give me some examples.
Arianna Harrelson (10:45)
Holding a conversation, I think, was huge for me. Like I said, I was by myself in an office. I really didn’t have an everyday interaction. I used to be in retail, and I was always in management, so I wasn’t on a sales floor. But holding a regular conversation and then adding those little business questions in that you need to answer have always been a trouble for me. But now I find the more conversations I have, it’s more natural, even still. have like the little like where I’m thinking about everything I’m saying instead of just naturally saying it. But that is something that the sales training has helped me with and just kind of being in this industry. feel like, you know, people are people and you can’t look at them all like prospects, I guess, if that’s a weird way to put that.
Terry Hedden (11:36)
Yeah, they’re people first, prospects second. You gotta get to know the person, gotta understand them, listen to them, care about them, and you’ll sense that. Ariana, one of the things I see you, you have a natural confidence about you. Has taking the training and getting the reps helped you with confidence? I mean, are you more confident now than the first opportunity you got?
Arianna Harrelson (11:56)
My god, yes. The first one it was like, okay, you go in and you sell. And then it doesn’t work and I was defeated. And now it’s like go in and just have a conversation and then the rest kind of flows naturally.
Terry Hedden (12:07)
Yeah, that’s great. ⁓ What advice would you give someone like you who’s out there kind of looking for more? They want to grow, they don’t know how, maybe they haven’t had a lot of success with other marketing firms. What advice would you give them?
Arianna Harrelson (12:24)
I mean, having somebody that you can talk to and bounce ideas off of has also been really helpful for me.
Like I said, I have a business mentor, so I’ll do something and then I’ll write it down and I have a weekly call with him. And then we’ll go back and forth, like, why didn’t this work? And then we’ll go through the steps that I went and then I get recommendations. And then looking over your notes, that has always helped me. What did this person say and how did I react? Because I feel like that, how you react can change the entire dynamic of the sale or even just the person thinking about you.
Terry Hedden (13:02)
Interesting. That’s interesting way of putting it. Give me an example of that, I guess. When you say how you react, how would you have used to react versus how do you react now? Like, put me in the moment.
Arianna Harrelson (13:13)
So when I would go into any kind of business and somebody would be like, no, shut down. We don’t want this. It’s not for us. It would be, OK, turn away and go out the door. And now it’s kind of like, all right, well, asking different questions, like why, or then going through maybe kind of breaking off from the tech side and then talking about like things I see in the office and bringing up different things or just making, now I’m fumbling, but kind of just going back to yourself instead of thinking just, okay, I’m not gonna get this sale, because you could.
Terry Hedden (13:57)
Well, if you get them to open up and know that you care, get them talking, and maybe they’ll open up and share. It’s hard, you know. think IT is one of those things where people don’t really want to talk about it. You know, if there’s a skeleton in the closet, they got hacked or, you know, whatever, there’s a situation, they don’t really want everyone to know that. And they certainly don’t want to know that until they’ve made the decision to make a change. So you see it quite often where there’s like a natural resistance. Like, why is this? Can I trust her?
Is she worth the risk talking to her? ⁓ Is this going to be something I can even afford? It’s not easy. You know, you have to kind of walk a lot of lines and it really helps to create that baseline relationship where it’s like, I really like her. She’s a nice person. She cares about me. She genuinely listens to me. You know what I mean? Like, it’s not just someone coming in and trying to slam me into something. It’s someone who’s trying to build a partnership and a relationship, which is what managed services has to be to be successful.
in my experience. Do you agree with that or is it not the case?
Arianna Harrelson (15:02)
100%. 100%. I think that’s what I was trying to say before is like don’t just look at it as a sale. Look at it as this is a person that could be a really good relationship in your life.
Terry Hedden (15:12)
Okay. As a head of sales, did you have any challenge getting the MSP owner, I guess which would be your manager or whatever, to invest in marketing? Or did they, so many MSPs don’t understand the difference between marketing and sales and they look at someone like you and they’re like, get your own leads. Did you have any trouble convincing them to make the investment? And if so, how did you overcome their resistance?
Arianna Harrelson (15:37)
A little, not as much as I thought, but I think kind of going through and explaining, you know, I can only do so much of this by myself and then also go out and make sales or go to networking events. Like my time is spread very thin. So it was more explaining my time than the cost. So that was the only challenge I really had was kind of…
Showing them that I can’t do it all in Monday through Friday or adding days or nights or whatever. I needed the support and instead of hiring like internally to outsource it.
Terry Hedden (16:19)
Interesting. So you didn’t talk about any skill gaps or talent gaps. You’re just like flat out time. Like if I’m moving, I’m not closing. If I’m marketing, I’m not selling. And you’re just like, there’s only so much time in a day. And you can either have me focus on winning deals for you or door knocking and cold calling to get people to talk to, which is most important. And of course, their answer is always going to be the two together. So what you said was, hey, bring in someone that does what I’m not liking or not as good at maybe, I don’t know, and then let me go do what you hire me to do, which is win deals. Is that true?
Arianna Harrelson (16:58)
Pretty much, yeah. Because I’d spend two, three days creating posts or doing lists. I mean, besides the cold calling, that takes a big chunk of my time. But it was that back end creation part. I would just end up doing it after and then being up until 9 o’clock at night. And it’s like, OK, now I’m exhausted for tomorrow. And I have more of this to do.
Terry Hedden (17:24)
Yeah. Do you do your own marketing? Are you doing marketing yourself and outsourcing lead gen, or do you give that both to companies? Walk me through how you do the different aspects of marketing and lead gen to get you the results you’re looking for.
Arianna Harrelson (17:39)
So marketing we are doing through you. My Legion, I have now some of it through you guys. ⁓ I have one of the callers we’re doing to kind of then give me some more time back with not having to as many cold calls. But before that, I was using like AI based platforms to kind of generate or not generate, like gather lists together by myself. I was getting lists from local libraries here. ⁓and then just prospecting on LinkedIn. But I was doing all that by myself, so it was taking a huge amount of time.
Terry Hedden (18:15)
Now, give me a peek into the future, It’s December of 2025. You’ve been running a system that you’re running right now for a little bit of time. What do you expect? Where do you think you’ll be from a monthly RMR net new? Where do you think you’ll be from a pipeline perspective? And how do you think you’ll feel going into that next year given the pipeline that you would have built at that point?
Arianna Harrelson (18:40)
I would love to have at least like five to ten new customers signed up by then and I really would like to have at least one more salesperson underneath me. Specifically for Florida, we do have a few clients down in Florida and that was purely because they had offices here in New York and also in Florida so we really want to build up that market down there.
Terry Hedden (18:51)
Okay. Yeah, it’s a very booming economy. There’s a ton of New Yorkers that are moving down here. yeah, I don’t know, especially in February, you know, or January, but New York’s a wonderful place to do you live in the city? Long Island. Okay, beautiful. They’re very nice.
Arianna Harrelson (19:11)
I don’t blame them. No, I’m on Long Island. So we have some of the similar Florida things except for when it gets cold. Yeah, exactly.
Terry Hedden (19:26)
Yeah, except like winter, you know. We still scuba dive about 11 and a half months a year. Same thing. So it’s a different world, but you know, this time of year in July and August, it is hot, man. It’s really hot. And I’m thankful here. you live close to the coast, it’s a lot cooler than if even just 30 minutes. I try to stay as close as I can to the Gulf of Mexico slash Gulf of America and enjoy that breeze.
Well, Ariana, any lessons learned so far? If you had to go back and talk to yourself three months ago, is there anything you would have done different now? Any kind of, I guess, lessons learned in terms of making the most of the relationship and the investment that you made in Marketopia?
Arianna Harrelson (20:15)
I wish we would have done it sooner because I feel like I wasted a lot of time. You my first two, three months was a lot of training on myself, making sure I knew what I was talking about when I go out. But then, you know, when it was busy and tax season just ended and CPAs were like a good contact, I didn’t have the tools to go out and really make those first introductions. I was making them and then losing them instantly because of what I didn’t know. So I wish we started earlier.
We’re very excited. Thank you.
